23 Comments
Jun 22Liked by Jenny Holland

I have been appalled by how many people who should know better have fallen for Hamas propaganda. Biblical literacy would be a good start in understanding reality. Scripture says, "...woe to those who call evil good and good evil..." (Isaiah 5:20). Lies are very popular today. One is the big lie of moral equivalency between Israel and the terrorists. Another big lie is that Israel is always wrong and that anybody who opposes Israel is always right. It would also help in understanding reality to know that Hamas is notorious for using civilians as human shields for terrorists. This policy greatly increases civilian casualties and, of course, Hamas finds it helpful for propaganda purposes to exaggerate civilian casualties. But a typical propagandized kid on a college campus is clueless about this. Also, God says regarding Israel in Genesis 12:3, "I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse..."

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I agree -- similarly, I think that a lot of otherwise smart commentators treat Israel as a uniquely evil and powerful entity, when it is just engaging in the same power politics as any other government. There is room to criticise any government, including an Israeli one, but none of the smart left-leaning people can ever articulate what they would do in Israel's shoes, ie, a fight for survival.

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Jun 22Liked by Jenny Holland

His thoughts on the American “right” being subjected to disinformation to blunt support for Ukraine are too simplistic. Has he seen American cities and infrastructure? We are falling apart that’s why people are tired of building weapons and sending them around the world

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The decaying infrastructure in the US is one reason for my lack of support, but it's also about our national interest, as I support the routing of Hamas. I see our interest in a secure Israel. As far as Ukraine, I just don't have a clear picture that continuing the fighting there is in the interest of the US or the Ukrainian citizens.

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Jun 22Liked by Jenny Holland

I agree, I was just attacking that point that we are being duped by Russian propaganda. I’m like no dude, we are trillions in debt and we have nothing to show for it

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I should have pushed back on that tbh.

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Americans have a bad habit of forgetting the outside world exists independently of their culture war.

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Not sure if you are making a criticism of me here, but your comment is extremely true.

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I'm describing the general phenomenon you're complaining about.

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That was an amazing discussion. If only you could broadcast this on primetime television.

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Really? Thank you!

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I agree!

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Great conversation, Jenny. ❤😎

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Thanks Adam! And thanks for joining the live stream yesterday!

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Jun 22Liked by Jenny Holland

I have also read that Israel employs lots of bots... welcome to the new world.

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I would be surprised if they didn't, being a highly advanced and technologically sophisticated state.

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Andrew Fox, I research incessantly. It interrelates to other "Wokeism".

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Alt-Pundits are divided on Gaza, but because the division falls approximately 80/20 (80 pro-Israel) AND because those 80 comprise the superstars of the Alt-Sphere (Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk, Douglas Murray, James Lindsay, etc.), this division is being ignored and no conversation between the two sides disagreeing has occurred. Zero. Zilch. Zots (pardon my Yiddish). No conversation -- and both sides pretend like the other side doesn't exist.

Yeah, real normal there.

Candace Owens is the ONE single exception to this strange situation. And of course, all the pro-Israel Alt-Pundits are ignoring her (or when pressed, say like Jordan Peterson, "I have nothing to say"). I'm sure glad I'm an Alt-Peasant and I don't have to follow some secret code of behavior.

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I strongly disagree that "no conversation between the two sides has occurred." Big Twitter accounts tore each other to pieces over it. Just the other day Douglas Murray did a massive debate in Canada about it.

Candace Owens appears more and more like a plant to me with every passing day. She's approaching Nick Fuentes territory.

I just happen to agree with Mr Fox but that doesn't mean that I'm pretending the other side doesn't exist. I just find the other side to lack depth, even if I might agree with them on other issues.

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I meant (and I think I mentioned it) no debate/conversation amongst the higher-up Alt-Pundits. Sure, there no doubt has been flurries of Alt-Peasants (like me) joining the debate, but they [I] don’t really count in this regard.

There aren’t many of them who are critical of Israel—they seem to be a small minority—but they are out there: So the debate/conversation would have to involve Aaron Mate/Max Blumenthal/Scott Ritter/Caitlin Johnstone/Anastasia Loupis/Stew Peters/Candace Owens on one side, then all those pro-Israel Big Hitters that dominate the Alt-Sphere (Jordan Peterson, James Lindsay, Douglas Murray, Diana West, and on and on).

It is literally all these names on both sides that continue to pretend—on this specific issue—that the other names across the aisle don’t even exist.

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It's a most curious "war" where the enemy is simultaneously a terrorist organization embedded in a civilian population -- and the entire civilian population -- with the pro-Israel Mainstream equivocating between these two and otherwise intelligent pundits in the Alt-Sphere not even batting an eyelash.

Not to mention I've never heard of a war where one side has "special screenings" of the evidence that is supposed to establish how uniquely ghoulishly evil the enemy is -- "special screenings" which can be "arranged" for "special individuals" to watch. I mean, pardon my Arabic, but what the fuck...

And again, otherwise intelligent pundits in the Alt-Sphere act like this is normal. I mean, pardon my Arabic, but...

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Erm, no. Literally every insurgency in the 20th century saw an enemy embedded within a civilian population, specifically so that the ensuing civilian death hands them a propaganda victory -- you are creating the impression that this was cooked up by Israel on Oct 7th but actually it's a tried and true asymmetrical tactic. The highly personal nature of the 7 Oct attacks is just the apex of that strategy, as it egged Israel into a response that was then used against it. It's a fiendishly effective way to create demoralisation propaganda.

Are you saying that the special screenings showed footage that was staged, made up, or fake somehow?

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The issue is not whether civilian collateral damage occurs in wars, and/or ever has before, and/or often may be arguably unavoidable.

The issue here is whether Israel is inflicting too much of it in this case, and unduly conflating civilians with the enemy as a result, tantamount to a war crime. The problem with the pro-Israel side is they consistently stubbornly strangely behave as though it is an Eternal Principle Carved in Stone by God that Israel cannot possibly be crossing the line in this specific instance. The question can’t even come up, without them chirping about “Nazis” and “Anti-Semites” etc.

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