Michael Shellenberger called a proposed law to criminalise "hate speech" in Ireland as the worst law he's ever seen. The arms race of offence escalates ever upward.
If it were possible, I'd bet there'd be a whispered "I warned you" around Orwell's grave.
I, too, have come to fear the spread of the "hate crime" contagion. First it was adding years to sentences for the perp's hateful thoughts and now it's morphing into thought crimes. And, as you've found, it's usually the blue collars who point out that the elite emperors are wearing no clothes. The wealthier and better-educated are too cowed to speak. As the song says, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."
Very well said. I think I will stop referring to myself as Irish-American. I’m embarrassed by this. My granddad is spinning in his grave that his home country has thrown freedom into the abyss.
Overwhelming majority of Irish people do not support this as demonstrated by recent polls. These woke ideologues trying to push through this legislation are not representative of us.
True. Thanks for the reminder. Like what the US government does is not reflective of the American people. I guess I’m just shocked remembering my grandad’s stories of growing up in Ireland. I wish we could all get together and stop this nonsense once and for all.
I'm optimistic Seanad Éireann will either reject or heavily amend this horrendous piece of legislation. However, it's concerning there was broad support for this across the political spectrum with exceptions of PBP, Aontú and independents. Any politician who supported this needs punished at the ballot box.
Did PBP not support it? I thought they did, but could be coloured by my loathing for the left. Interesting that SF has moved away from it -- that's a signal of something, just not sure what.
You know what hate the most about PBP types? They bang on and on about working class solidarity, but you know who they absolutely will not join in solidarity with? The working class people who don't agree with their BS communist-lite, miserable, drab agenda. Which is, inconveniently, the majority of working class people. Ergo, no solidarity. It drives me batty.
Then you are going to have to vote them out of power.
Though IF you think the Free Speech is an issue, wait until the UK Net Zero consequences start to take hold. The UK will starve. Which, may seem like a non-sequitur for the Irish, except for one very pertinent fact.
The UK is committed to Net Zero in 2050. That is 27 years away, that means no shipping, no flying and no fossil fuels. Those 3 things will mean the UK will starve a lot sooner than those 27 years . I'll not bother you all with an analysis of what the UK could suffer and must do not to suffer, but I'll posit the following scenario for the Island of Ireland.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK. It will suffer the same Net Zero rules, so when they have no shipping, no flying and no fossil fuel, they too will go hungry. The EU is going down the Net Zero path too, but Ireland is NOT joined to Europe, so the small population of Ireland won't I am going to assume, suffer from marauding hordes of hungry Europeans.
However, where will the starving Northerners look for food?
The removal of Western politicians from power is far more a matter of life and death, than free speech, it just hasn't dawned on most people that is the case yet.
In the UK from January 2024, it will start to dawn on anyone involved with UK car manufacturers. I won't bore you with the details, just to say that IF a UK manufacturer does NOT hit 22% of their sales as EV's they will be fined £15,000 per car. Meanwhile, China sends us cheap EVs that are eating into the small EV market in the UK. UK companies will either be fined OR they can buy 'credits' off companies who are in 'credit' on EV sales. - which will be the Chinese importers.
That is the first taste of Net Zero insanity that cannot be blamed on Brexit, Putin, lockdown etc. Though gas prices, inflation and the Ukraine war are also consequences of Net Zero, . Again I won't bore you with why, but they are.
So I repeat, the real issue with Net Zero in the UK is that Net Zero is going to mean no shipping, flying and all fossil fuels in 27 years time. The UK will begin to starve before those 27 years are up.
To quote Doomberg
"On the path from abundance to starvation is riot"
it isn't just a case of reversing a ruling on Free Speech, the UK and perhaps all the West has to clear out EVERY politician from the current 'main parties' . They are all infected with the same disease, and it will kill far more than COVID. It sounds extreme, BUT it is fact, as Doomberg regularly points out.
We are ruled by morons, you either remove them all by the ballot box very quickly or Doomberg will be proven right and they'll be removed much later, and by violence. It really is that serious.
I agree that there needs to be a Great Replacement for our political class! What did you think of Sunak's back pedalling on the UK's net zero goals? Too little, too late?
He hasn't back pedalled very much. Which to some extent is good, because next January the incredibly stupid rules on car manufacturers comes in where they have to SELL , not make, but SELL 22% EVs. Good luck with that.
Meanwhile MG and Chinese EVs will start to flood into the country AND, ironically, the only way that UK car manufacturers can avoid £15k fines per vehicle they fail to meet targets on, is to buy 'Carbon offsets or something weird like that' from a company who has met targets. Well, guess who is going to meet targets? China's EV importers because they don't bring in ICE vehicles. So the UK car manufacturers are going to pay Chinese companies for taking their EV market OR they are going to pay whacking great fines and so go bust.
The EU is about to prohibit China importing EVs because even without Chinese competition VW has had to lay off hundreds at their EV plants. They are reputed to be preparing to lay off thousands (mind you they are all 'temporary employees' - so much for the vaunted EU worker protection!)
Sunak and the Tories must be complete morons OR else they never read what they pass as laws. The first UK car company to start laying off staff will cause a political uproar - BUT - how is Starmer or any other UK political party going to hammer Sunak when they are even more fanatical supporters of Net Zero?
Slowly the insanity of Net Zero will affect more and more and the first party to realise that Net Zero is insane as well as impossible and scraps the lot will probably win a GE by a landslide. Perhaps then they'll start revealing all the scams Climate Scientists get up to with their 'models' and spurious claims.
Yes, I suspect and hope you are correct. That's why the media infuriates me so much, they will now allow those majority voices to come through in any way other than by demonising them. If any of these countries had an honest and courageous media we would not be in these situations.
Well to be fair to contemporary Ireland, the old Ireland was no great shakes on the freedom front. There's always been a strong oppressive and conformist streak since the nation's founding after the civil war. They've just swapped new priests -- tech, trans and woke mandarins -- for the old priests.
our entire body politic is being offered up as a sacrifice to the luxury beliefs of the white, liberal managerial class. if reality dare interfere, we can just arrest it and prosecute accordingly.
move heaven and earth in order not to pierce the bubble of smug satisfaction they need to continue an existence of mindless consumption.
The Bible advocates "speaking the truth in love" (Ephesians 4:15). How convenient for the power hungry to label any speech that they disagree with "hate speech" or other nasty names.
The U.K. and the Republic of Ireland seem to be achieving the goal that leftists here in California dream about. Is there any state or country left in the Western world that's a refuge for rational people, that's not likely to be infected and spoiled by leftists in the foreseeable future?
We need to get put own house in order first - Ireland’s specific law may be worse, but we are on the same path, in more insidious (and harder to change) ways, while we are far bigger on the worldwide political stage.
I doubt it, though I appreciate the sentiment. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me like the old guard of Irish America, people like Rep. Peter King from Long Island, would hold zero sway over this new progressive class of Irish pols. We are in a new world.
Our world certainly seems to be "going to Hell in a hand basket," but I'm still holding on to the hope that the Light (that of God) within humans will rise to the shit-covered surface of the collective unconscious of humanity and will dissolve it. We all know that those who wish to control free speech are only a minority, albeit a powerful minority. However, sanity will prevail, I believe, as long as we keep standing up for freedom and don't cave into the fear that the speech controllers are using now as a weapon against us. Thank you, Jenny, for this story. My mind is distressed, but my heart continues to shine!
Well that's the most important thing, isn't it? We all lose faith and hope at points, as long as we can lift ourselves up again that is the best we can do. I refuse to be black pilled, just like you.
As an Irish man living abroad, i can’t believe that this law is going through. Well, I can. It just makes me so sad. And it really isn’t that commonly understood or discussed there at all.
It’s a test case, i think. As you point out, we’re kind of a universally accepted nation - never had any colonial time, except to suffer it, we kept learning and ancient texts alive during the dark ages, are fun loving and witty. So if we go for it there, how bad could it be. It is not accidental - and works hand in glove with Europe’s now law Digital Services Act.
Wilde, Joyce, Beckett and even fairly fascistic Yeats must be howling in their graves.
I would suggest that conservative groups encourage millions of ordinary people to use the new laws against the bastards on the left who have pushed for them.
It is clear to me that the most bigoted people in the world are in fact the projectors who claim to be anti-raisct or anti-transphobe, etc.
The big mistake these people have made is that there is nothing in their silly lawss that says that you can disciminate against your own protected class. SO conservative people should start an avalanche of complaints to the police about anti-racists being in fact racist against whites.
Well interestingly, at one point Shellenberger was asked about this very issue. His response was something along the lines of 'don't stoop to their level.' But it's a very good question -- and one I'm not sure I have an answer to. Fight fire with fire or take the high road?
Perhaps Mexico has just pipped Ireland at the post. What is it with these former Catholic Countries? Perhaps the Devil does exist, and he's having a whale of a time in post Catholic countries where they stopped believing in God so now appear to believe in anything!
Wow that surprises me about Mexico. Brazil has also fallen. But of course these are not organic movements, people in Mexico and Brazil and Ireland and Canada are not actually rising up and demanding their rights be curbed. It's a coordinated and concerted attack executed by NGO's and funded by unaccountable wealth. I have come to believe in the last few years that the devil is absolutely real, I see his work every day, and it's pushed me closer to believing in God than I ever thought possible for a born and bred atheist like me.
Odd, me too! I was once a devout Catholic but became agnostic, perhaps atheist, but the evil that sprouts up everywhere is just so staggering that I too am wondering if there is perhaps a supernatural being who thrives on and promotes evil. Or maybe we just need to wait for the electorate to realise what is going on and vote them all out to discover it was after all, just a small group of very well organised evil people. Perhaps that's what they spend their days/nights doing at Davos, planning stuff like this.
At the end is another horrifying report from the US on "2SLGBTQ+IA and the Law"
My old uncle was spot on - 'IF you accept one unusual sexual preference, where do you stop?".
Now it seems that the BBC report from the 1970's on PIE was, like my uncle, prophetic, NOT historic, new letters and more extreme sexual preferences are added daily it seems, and in the US at least, perhaps even over here, they all become 'protected by the law' and our elites. Once protected, it seems they then want control over our way of life, not just tolerance of theirs.
Truly the world's leaders and many of its inhabitants have gone isane! "Whom the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad!"
Thank you for this insider piece on free speech in Ireland. Will be shouting it out in our aggregate newsletter. Also, wow re reporting of your 14 y.o. to police. How close are we coming to that line of true silencing.
You have clearly pointed out the absurdity of this new law and others like it. How they are being pushed through without the support of the greater population is further proof that we are no longer living in a free society. Those who govern us are arbitrarily pushing through whatever they please. This is beyond scary and one can only wonder where the tipping point is and what will happen when we hit it?
That may be, but I tend to believe we’re getting close to it, not quite there, yet. The growing number of people that have begun to push back may be a reflection of this.
The irony of that priest is, the story-lines helped fuel the demise of Irish Catholicism, but the man who wrote it fell foul of the very people he pandered to with his scripts. Perhaps the Mills of God don't grind as slowly as we think. ;-)
Well said Jenny, completely agree - there is no greater fight than the one for free speech
If it were possible, I'd bet there'd be a whispered "I warned you" around Orwell's grave.
I, too, have come to fear the spread of the "hate crime" contagion. First it was adding years to sentences for the perp's hateful thoughts and now it's morphing into thought crimes. And, as you've found, it's usually the blue collars who point out that the elite emperors are wearing no clothes. The wealthier and better-educated are too cowed to speak. As the song says, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose."
Yes -- that point about working people seeing through this, this is proved to me again and again and again.
Very well said. I think I will stop referring to myself as Irish-American. I’m embarrassed by this. My granddad is spinning in his grave that his home country has thrown freedom into the abyss.
Overwhelming majority of Irish people do not support this as demonstrated by recent polls. These woke ideologues trying to push through this legislation are not representative of us.
True. Thanks for the reminder. Like what the US government does is not reflective of the American people. I guess I’m just shocked remembering my grandad’s stories of growing up in Ireland. I wish we could all get together and stop this nonsense once and for all.
I'm optimistic Seanad Éireann will either reject or heavily amend this horrendous piece of legislation. However, it's concerning there was broad support for this across the political spectrum with exceptions of PBP, Aontú and independents. Any politician who supported this needs punished at the ballot box.
Correct, IF you don't do that, then worse is going to follow. The same is true in most Western states.
Did PBP not support it? I thought they did, but could be coloured by my loathing for the left. Interesting that SF has moved away from it -- that's a signal of something, just not sure what.
PBP didn't vote in favour of this legislation although I'd still say they're questionable defenders of free speech. P.s. I also loathe them.
You know what hate the most about PBP types? They bang on and on about working class solidarity, but you know who they absolutely will not join in solidarity with? The working class people who don't agree with their BS communist-lite, miserable, drab agenda. Which is, inconveniently, the majority of working class people. Ergo, no solidarity. It drives me batty.
I think we can! 🥰
Then you are going to have to vote them out of power.
Though IF you think the Free Speech is an issue, wait until the UK Net Zero consequences start to take hold. The UK will starve. Which, may seem like a non-sequitur for the Irish, except for one very pertinent fact.
The UK is committed to Net Zero in 2050. That is 27 years away, that means no shipping, no flying and no fossil fuels. Those 3 things will mean the UK will starve a lot sooner than those 27 years . I'll not bother you all with an analysis of what the UK could suffer and must do not to suffer, but I'll posit the following scenario for the Island of Ireland.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK. It will suffer the same Net Zero rules, so when they have no shipping, no flying and no fossil fuel, they too will go hungry. The EU is going down the Net Zero path too, but Ireland is NOT joined to Europe, so the small population of Ireland won't I am going to assume, suffer from marauding hordes of hungry Europeans.
However, where will the starving Northerners look for food?
The removal of Western politicians from power is far more a matter of life and death, than free speech, it just hasn't dawned on most people that is the case yet.
In the UK from January 2024, it will start to dawn on anyone involved with UK car manufacturers. I won't bore you with the details, just to say that IF a UK manufacturer does NOT hit 22% of their sales as EV's they will be fined £15,000 per car. Meanwhile, China sends us cheap EVs that are eating into the small EV market in the UK. UK companies will either be fined OR they can buy 'credits' off companies who are in 'credit' on EV sales. - which will be the Chinese importers.
That is the first taste of Net Zero insanity that cannot be blamed on Brexit, Putin, lockdown etc. Though gas prices, inflation and the Ukraine war are also consequences of Net Zero, . Again I won't bore you with why, but they are.
So I repeat, the real issue with Net Zero in the UK is that Net Zero is going to mean no shipping, flying and all fossil fuels in 27 years time. The UK will begin to starve before those 27 years are up.
To quote Doomberg
"On the path from abundance to starvation is riot"
it isn't just a case of reversing a ruling on Free Speech, the UK and perhaps all the West has to clear out EVERY politician from the current 'main parties' . They are all infected with the same disease, and it will kill far more than COVID. It sounds extreme, BUT it is fact, as Doomberg regularly points out.
We are ruled by morons, you either remove them all by the ballot box very quickly or Doomberg will be proven right and they'll be removed much later, and by violence. It really is that serious.
I agree that there needs to be a Great Replacement for our political class! What did you think of Sunak's back pedalling on the UK's net zero goals? Too little, too late?
He hasn't back pedalled very much. Which to some extent is good, because next January the incredibly stupid rules on car manufacturers comes in where they have to SELL , not make, but SELL 22% EVs. Good luck with that.
Meanwhile MG and Chinese EVs will start to flood into the country AND, ironically, the only way that UK car manufacturers can avoid £15k fines per vehicle they fail to meet targets on, is to buy 'Carbon offsets or something weird like that' from a company who has met targets. Well, guess who is going to meet targets? China's EV importers because they don't bring in ICE vehicles. So the UK car manufacturers are going to pay Chinese companies for taking their EV market OR they are going to pay whacking great fines and so go bust.
The EU is about to prohibit China importing EVs because even without Chinese competition VW has had to lay off hundreds at their EV plants. They are reputed to be preparing to lay off thousands (mind you they are all 'temporary employees' - so much for the vaunted EU worker protection!)
https://fortune.com/2023/09/14/vw-cutting-jobs-german-ev-factory-because-demand-plunging-china-tesla/
Sunak and the Tories must be complete morons OR else they never read what they pass as laws. The first UK car company to start laying off staff will cause a political uproar - BUT - how is Starmer or any other UK political party going to hammer Sunak when they are even more fanatical supporters of Net Zero?
Slowly the insanity of Net Zero will affect more and more and the first party to realise that Net Zero is insane as well as impossible and scraps the lot will probably win a GE by a landslide. Perhaps then they'll start revealing all the scams Climate Scientists get up to with their 'models' and spurious claims.
Yes, I suspect and hope you are correct. That's why the media infuriates me so much, they will now allow those majority voices to come through in any way other than by demonising them. If any of these countries had an honest and courageous media we would not be in these situations.
Well to be fair to contemporary Ireland, the old Ireland was no great shakes on the freedom front. There's always been a strong oppressive and conformist streak since the nation's founding after the civil war. They've just swapped new priests -- tech, trans and woke mandarins -- for the old priests.
our entire body politic is being offered up as a sacrifice to the luxury beliefs of the white, liberal managerial class. if reality dare interfere, we can just arrest it and prosecute accordingly.
move heaven and earth in order not to pierce the bubble of smug satisfaction they need to continue an existence of mindless consumption.
digital heroin to numb the pain...
This comment is 100 percent correct.
The Bible advocates "speaking the truth in love" (Ephesians 4:15). How convenient for the power hungry to label any speech that they disagree with "hate speech" or other nasty names.
The U.K. and the Republic of Ireland seem to be achieving the goal that leftists here in California dream about. Is there any state or country left in the Western world that's a refuge for rational people, that's not likely to be infected and spoiled by leftists in the foreseeable future?
It looks like there is not. I'm sorry to say.
Oy vey.
Is there anything we can do from this side of the Atlantic? Would American voices even be regarded if we wrote to Irish MP's?
We need to get put own house in order first - Ireland’s specific law may be worse, but we are on the same path, in more insidious (and harder to change) ways, while we are far bigger on the worldwide political stage.
Point well taken. Thank you.
I doubt it, though I appreciate the sentiment. I'm not an expert, but it looks to me like the old guard of Irish America, people like Rep. Peter King from Long Island, would hold zero sway over this new progressive class of Irish pols. We are in a new world.
Not while Biden sleeps in the Whitehouse.
Don't vote for US Woke politicians.
Our world certainly seems to be "going to Hell in a hand basket," but I'm still holding on to the hope that the Light (that of God) within humans will rise to the shit-covered surface of the collective unconscious of humanity and will dissolve it. We all know that those who wish to control free speech are only a minority, albeit a powerful minority. However, sanity will prevail, I believe, as long as we keep standing up for freedom and don't cave into the fear that the speech controllers are using now as a weapon against us. Thank you, Jenny, for this story. My mind is distressed, but my heart continues to shine!
Well that's the most important thing, isn't it? We all lose faith and hope at points, as long as we can lift ourselves up again that is the best we can do. I refuse to be black pilled, just like you.
Brilliantly said,as usual. As a dual citizen, I’m astounded by the lack of respect in Ireland for free speech.
As an Irish man living abroad, i can’t believe that this law is going through. Well, I can. It just makes me so sad. And it really isn’t that commonly understood or discussed there at all.
It’s a test case, i think. As you point out, we’re kind of a universally accepted nation - never had any colonial time, except to suffer it, we kept learning and ancient texts alive during the dark ages, are fun loving and witty. So if we go for it there, how bad could it be. It is not accidental - and works hand in glove with Europe’s now law Digital Services Act.
Wilde, Joyce, Beckett and even fairly fascistic Yeats must be howling in their graves.
It’s as if the Penal times have been totally forgotten.... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_laws_(Ireland)
Very well said.
Is there any such thing as a love crime?
I’m pretty sure a lot of rock and roll has been written about that!
I would suggest that conservative groups encourage millions of ordinary people to use the new laws against the bastards on the left who have pushed for them.
It is clear to me that the most bigoted people in the world are in fact the projectors who claim to be anti-raisct or anti-transphobe, etc.
The big mistake these people have made is that there is nothing in their silly lawss that says that you can disciminate against your own protected class. SO conservative people should start an avalanche of complaints to the police about anti-racists being in fact racist against whites.
Well interestingly, at one point Shellenberger was asked about this very issue. His response was something along the lines of 'don't stoop to their level.' But it's a very good question -- and one I'm not sure I have an answer to. Fight fire with fire or take the high road?
They own the judges. ;-)
Perhaps Mexico has just pipped Ireland at the post. What is it with these former Catholic Countries? Perhaps the Devil does exist, and he's having a whale of a time in post Catholic countries where they stopped believing in God so now appear to believe in anything!
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/mexicos-progressive-hell/
Wow that surprises me about Mexico. Brazil has also fallen. But of course these are not organic movements, people in Mexico and Brazil and Ireland and Canada are not actually rising up and demanding their rights be curbed. It's a coordinated and concerted attack executed by NGO's and funded by unaccountable wealth. I have come to believe in the last few years that the devil is absolutely real, I see his work every day, and it's pushed me closer to believing in God than I ever thought possible for a born and bred atheist like me.
Odd, me too! I was once a devout Catholic but became agnostic, perhaps atheist, but the evil that sprouts up everywhere is just so staggering that I too am wondering if there is perhaps a supernatural being who thrives on and promotes evil. Or maybe we just need to wait for the electorate to realise what is going on and vote them all out to discover it was after all, just a small group of very well organised evil people. Perhaps that's what they spend their days/nights doing at Davos, planning stuff like this.
At the end is another horrifying report from the US on "2SLGBTQ+IA and the Law"
My old uncle was spot on - 'IF you accept one unusual sexual preference, where do you stop?".
Now it seems that the BBC report from the 1970's on PIE was, like my uncle, prophetic, NOT historic, new letters and more extreme sexual preferences are added daily it seems, and in the US at least, perhaps even over here, they all become 'protected by the law' and our elites. Once protected, it seems they then want control over our way of life, not just tolerance of theirs.
Truly the world's leaders and many of its inhabitants have gone isane! "Whom the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad!"
https://mises.org/library/2slgbtqia-and-law
Even here, Uherd is raising such questions.
https://unherd.com/2023/09/can-paedophilia-ever-be-a-thought-experiment/
Thank you for this insider piece on free speech in Ireland. Will be shouting it out in our aggregate newsletter. Also, wow re reporting of your 14 y.o. to police. How close are we coming to that line of true silencing.
I know, WOW. Like, WT the actual F? I still can't believe that actually happened.
You have clearly pointed out the absurdity of this new law and others like it. How they are being pushed through without the support of the greater population is further proof that we are no longer living in a free society. Those who govern us are arbitrarily pushing through whatever they please. This is beyond scary and one can only wonder where the tipping point is and what will happen when we hit it?
It's rather frightening to think we haven't already reached the tipping point.
Jeni, do you have an email that I can send an article to?
That may be, but I tend to believe we’re getting close to it, not quite there, yet. The growing number of people that have begun to push back may be a reflection of this.
I know this is a serious subject but when I think of Ireland I think of a certain priest living on Craggy Island. Awesome Stack though. Thank you.
The irony of that priest is, the story-lines helped fuel the demise of Irish Catholicism, but the man who wrote it fell foul of the very people he pandered to with his scripts. Perhaps the Mills of God don't grind as slowly as we think. ;-)
Thank you! And Viva Father Ted.