As an NYU college student and resident of Greenwich Village throughout the 80s, I may have bumped into your dad at some point. :-) I completely share your view of the early Madonna - I adored her - bouncy and fresh, taking some aspects of the punk fashion and making it fun - she was strong but so feminine; to me, early Madonna was a wonderful icon of our generation.
She seemed to be completely self-directed, something I truly admired. She was very much her own person - she dressed and acted as she pleased, and she seemed truly happy with herself. She wasn't bitter and demanding, she wasn't resentful and bruised. She simply "believed she could, so she did." Watching her in the earliest videos, I always thought it seemed the camera just caught her in her natural state - dancing and singing to please herself - even if delighted that others might watch.
As a young woman of her same age, I knew how unusual that was. Our mothers fought hard in the 60s and 70s for some fundamental measures of equality, and they often seemed to feel forced to choose between being feminine/attractive vs being strong/successful. A woman of my mom's age once told me her most oppressive moment was a man telling her she'd be so much more prettier if she would just smile. I remember thinking that it seemed completely reasonable that happy people were more attractive, but I knew better than to say that.
Madonna in the early days, however, was strong, independent & successful AND feminine, attractive & happy.
But soon, she began to lose the fun/carefree aspect that made it all work so flawlessly. She became strangely demanding of the attention, demanding of obedience, demanding that she be seen as hard-core-sexual. Bitterness marred the picture as she became more and more desperate. Her idea of attractiveness turned quickly into something grotesque - she was no longer the bouncy pied piper, she was the lunging crone. Instead of sparking delight and curiosity, she began to stir feelings of revulsion.
So much of popular culture has lost (maybe destroyed) the idea of carefree, light, bouncy fun. There is no joy. There is no beauty. Absolutely everything is wrought with ugliness. Even when none is intended, anything we say or do will most certainly be interpreted by someone as hateful, harmful, ugly, violent, privileged, offensive, etc. Strangely, the *least* vilified are the people who embrace this ugliness - rappers, truly violent protestors, screaming authoritarians, dystopian artists, etc.
I cannot fathom why we, as a society, would choose this path.
It is with some trepidation that I admit to also hanging around in the Grassroots Tavern in 1983 when I was an art student. I miss it though I don’t miss coming home with smokey clothes. Well, you can’t go home again.
Anyway, this is spot on, and horrible. I stopped paying attention long ago, but wow. Could she have dementia? Seeing the video in the bodega reminds me of those videos of people trashing fast food restaurants.
It seemed like such innocent, transgressive fun back in the 80s. And then it started taking itself too seriously. What have we wrought?
The reason human women live so long past our childbearing years is because our wisdom is important to the survival of our group, not our sex appeal. Natural selection and/or God don't make mistakes. Enjoy each season of life for what it offers.
I don’t you very well Jenny but i sure do like you....it’s interesting the timing of this piece...I sense that I have crossed this hidden line...a line that I didn’t know existed until I crossed it...a line once noticed cannot be unseen...there is now a need to prepare for my transition...this is not morbid or heavy, it’s just the reality of my place in time...I’m seeing things differently, I’m feeling things deeply...my awareness is keen...I saw these pictures of Madonna recently and I thought about her pain...the growing unstoppable hole that is enveloping her...I can’t tell you how Grateful not to be her!...to be here talking with you, finishing strong, embracing the Wonders that enhance a smile or being thrilled by words that illuminate one’s Heart...
For years I wondered why I started obsessing over women. I just found out several weeks ago about all the hidden messages I've most likely viewed through TV/music videos. In Jan 2020 I turned away from my gay lifestyle. I'm very certain today that it had a lot to do w the song, Like a Virgin by Madonna. I know the fault lies in me. It's just nice to understand so much more these days. I appreciate all truth. Ty
The years of our lives go faster than we realize when we are young. One day we wake up and realize that we are not only no longer young, but no longer middle aged either. Some, like Nancy Pelosi, do a pretty good job of trying to hide this reality, but all of the Botox in the world cannot hide the fact that Nancy Pelosi is old. And all of Pelosi's smug self-assurance cannot hide the fact that she will not live forever. While she might have convinced the most gullible among us about her fidelity to her faith, God is fully aware of her advocacy for such things as partial birth abortions, and one suspects that her eternal destination will, in the absence of sincere repentance, be considerably less comfortable than the mansions and private planes that she is accustomed to. Not to pick on Pelosi but I know more about her than I do about Madonna who has only been on the outer outskirts of my radar screen.
This turn to ugliness in the Western world is the unfortunate take of the Nihilist Left from the writings of Nietzsche. Specifically, they wanted to transform themselves into Ubermensch (superman), with the ability to give new meaning to their empty lives after the "Death of God." To do so, they rejected everything that came before, everything they considered to be "bourgeois," everything the rest of us normal people consider beautiful.
Tom Wolfe (May God eternally bless his soul) was a genius and one of the most astute commentators on the New Left/Existentialists/Post-modernists who entrenched themselves into the old Left and hijacked the term "liberal" for themselves. In a chapter of his brilliant collection of essays titled "Hooking Up" he explains how the more something turns the stomach of the average person, the more the elite consider that to be a thing of beauty. The entire point of Nietzschean Nihilism and Post-modernism is to reject and destroy everything that came before, and traditional concepts of beauty are at the top of their list.
Wolfe explains it best "Art worldlings regard popularity as skill's live-in slut. Popularity meant shallowness. Rejection by the public meant depth. And truly hostile rejection very likely meant greatness."
It is hard to imagine anyone will ever surpass Tom Wolfe's commentary on the Nihilist elites who are currently defecating over every great achievement of the West, and there are many indeed!
One of my favorites on YouTube, "WhatsHerFace", recently described Madonna this way: "She looks like that thing you see at the end of your bed during sleep paralysis."
There's a deeper thread here I've been scratching at for a while and might end up turning into a post myself eventually: we live in a world that paradoxically cheers "change" while simultaneously denouncing it. Your "truth" must remain your truth forever. There can be no growth, no evolution, no changing your mind after discovering new information. If you start waving a freak flag, you are required to keep waving it now, lest you be denounced as a sellout has-been hypocrite. The world Madonna lives in is one where she now *can't* stop, and can't even tone it down, because for her to do so would be to somehow deny what she has claimed as her truth. So she'll keep destroying her body and putting her tongue on people until she dies on stage.
Yup . . . alas, there are so many celebrities who have turned themselves into monstrosities, with plastic surgeries that suggest more than a few of these stars might be suffering from some sort of body dysmorphia. I saw a recent interview with Dolly Parton and felt sick. I found myself wishing I could get a glimpse of the elderly Parton from a parallel universe; because I am certain she would have been a gorgeous old woman. Stuff like this (as well as all the gender identity stuff, online porn, etc. etc.) has caused some shifts in today's feminist philosophers' thinking . . . this recent interview with Mary Harrington is very interesting, in that she looks back at a point in history where what she refers to as the Feminism of Freedom became dominant in the culture, kicking to the curb the Feminism of Care. It makes a person examine our hard-won rights to birth control and legal abortion in a new light . . . at least take into account the long-term effects on the culture when freedom is valued above all else . . . see https://youtu.be/CQYIOs9tIBE?t=1001 (bookmarked at the 16:41 minute mark). Makes a person think . . . (As I was listening, I was hearing the economist Thomas Sowell's maxim "There are no solutions, only trade-offs.")
The punk princess aesthetic veered into the sex kitten too fast. Even if you're the kitten with the whip, you're still a kitten. Laurie Anderson called it in 1991: "Laurie Anderson despises Jesse Helms and the right wing too, but in most other ways she’s the Anti-Madonna: “I’d probably be more excited about ‘expressing myself’ if I hadn’t gone to her concert and thought ‘Ann-Margret. I’m watching Ann-Margret’s Vegas revue,’ ” Anderson told her audience Saturday. Ultimately, she finds Madonna’s shtick “more about selling yourself than owning yourself.” https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-05-06-ca-889-story.html
Other pop stars have put out their jazz standards/cocktail lounge albums at her age, if not twenty years before. What's sad is that she was once the Queen of re-invention, but she seems to have lost that ability.
As an NYU college student and resident of Greenwich Village throughout the 80s, I may have bumped into your dad at some point. :-) I completely share your view of the early Madonna - I adored her - bouncy and fresh, taking some aspects of the punk fashion and making it fun - she was strong but so feminine; to me, early Madonna was a wonderful icon of our generation.
She seemed to be completely self-directed, something I truly admired. She was very much her own person - she dressed and acted as she pleased, and she seemed truly happy with herself. She wasn't bitter and demanding, she wasn't resentful and bruised. She simply "believed she could, so she did." Watching her in the earliest videos, I always thought it seemed the camera just caught her in her natural state - dancing and singing to please herself - even if delighted that others might watch.
As a young woman of her same age, I knew how unusual that was. Our mothers fought hard in the 60s and 70s for some fundamental measures of equality, and they often seemed to feel forced to choose between being feminine/attractive vs being strong/successful. A woman of my mom's age once told me her most oppressive moment was a man telling her she'd be so much more prettier if she would just smile. I remember thinking that it seemed completely reasonable that happy people were more attractive, but I knew better than to say that.
Madonna in the early days, however, was strong, independent & successful AND feminine, attractive & happy.
But soon, she began to lose the fun/carefree aspect that made it all work so flawlessly. She became strangely demanding of the attention, demanding of obedience, demanding that she be seen as hard-core-sexual. Bitterness marred the picture as she became more and more desperate. Her idea of attractiveness turned quickly into something grotesque - she was no longer the bouncy pied piper, she was the lunging crone. Instead of sparking delight and curiosity, she began to stir feelings of revulsion.
So much of popular culture has lost (maybe destroyed) the idea of carefree, light, bouncy fun. There is no joy. There is no beauty. Absolutely everything is wrought with ugliness. Even when none is intended, anything we say or do will most certainly be interpreted by someone as hateful, harmful, ugly, violent, privileged, offensive, etc. Strangely, the *least* vilified are the people who embrace this ugliness - rappers, truly violent protestors, screaming authoritarians, dystopian artists, etc.
I cannot fathom why we, as a society, would choose this path.
It is with some trepidation that I admit to also hanging around in the Grassroots Tavern in 1983 when I was an art student. I miss it though I don’t miss coming home with smokey clothes. Well, you can’t go home again.
Anyway, this is spot on, and horrible. I stopped paying attention long ago, but wow. Could she have dementia? Seeing the video in the bodega reminds me of those videos of people trashing fast food restaurants.
It seemed like such innocent, transgressive fun back in the 80s. And then it started taking itself too seriously. What have we wrought?
The reason human women live so long past our childbearing years is because our wisdom is important to the survival of our group, not our sex appeal. Natural selection and/or God don't make mistakes. Enjoy each season of life for what it offers.
This'll sound like hyperbole, but I really mean it: a large chunk of the human esthetic spirit has gone necrotic, and rap music is the gangrene.
I don’t you very well Jenny but i sure do like you....it’s interesting the timing of this piece...I sense that I have crossed this hidden line...a line that I didn’t know existed until I crossed it...a line once noticed cannot be unseen...there is now a need to prepare for my transition...this is not morbid or heavy, it’s just the reality of my place in time...I’m seeing things differently, I’m feeling things deeply...my awareness is keen...I saw these pictures of Madonna recently and I thought about her pain...the growing unstoppable hole that is enveloping her...I can’t tell you how Grateful not to be her!...to be here talking with you, finishing strong, embracing the Wonders that enhance a smile or being thrilled by words that illuminate one’s Heart...
Thanks again Jenny!
For years I wondered why I started obsessing over women. I just found out several weeks ago about all the hidden messages I've most likely viewed through TV/music videos. In Jan 2020 I turned away from my gay lifestyle. I'm very certain today that it had a lot to do w the song, Like a Virgin by Madonna. I know the fault lies in me. It's just nice to understand so much more these days. I appreciate all truth. Ty
There is one word that has always applied to Madonna Louise Ciccone:
Skank.
Always was and always will be. Remember the 80s Playboy "spread" in which she flaunted and rubbed her unshaven underarms into your face?
Yeah, Skank.
The years of our lives go faster than we realize when we are young. One day we wake up and realize that we are not only no longer young, but no longer middle aged either. Some, like Nancy Pelosi, do a pretty good job of trying to hide this reality, but all of the Botox in the world cannot hide the fact that Nancy Pelosi is old. And all of Pelosi's smug self-assurance cannot hide the fact that she will not live forever. While she might have convinced the most gullible among us about her fidelity to her faith, God is fully aware of her advocacy for such things as partial birth abortions, and one suspects that her eternal destination will, in the absence of sincere repentance, be considerably less comfortable than the mansions and private planes that she is accustomed to. Not to pick on Pelosi but I know more about her than I do about Madonna who has only been on the outer outskirts of my radar screen.
This turn to ugliness in the Western world is the unfortunate take of the Nihilist Left from the writings of Nietzsche. Specifically, they wanted to transform themselves into Ubermensch (superman), with the ability to give new meaning to their empty lives after the "Death of God." To do so, they rejected everything that came before, everything they considered to be "bourgeois," everything the rest of us normal people consider beautiful.
Tom Wolfe (May God eternally bless his soul) was a genius and one of the most astute commentators on the New Left/Existentialists/Post-modernists who entrenched themselves into the old Left and hijacked the term "liberal" for themselves. In a chapter of his brilliant collection of essays titled "Hooking Up" he explains how the more something turns the stomach of the average person, the more the elite consider that to be a thing of beauty. The entire point of Nietzschean Nihilism and Post-modernism is to reject and destroy everything that came before, and traditional concepts of beauty are at the top of their list.
Wolfe explains it best "Art worldlings regard popularity as skill's live-in slut. Popularity meant shallowness. Rejection by the public meant depth. And truly hostile rejection very likely meant greatness."
It is hard to imagine anyone will ever surpass Tom Wolfe's commentary on the Nihilist elites who are currently defecating over every great achievement of the West, and there are many indeed!
I liked her in one thing at least, the 1985 movie, Desperately Seeking Susan.
One of my favorites on YouTube, "WhatsHerFace", recently described Madonna this way: "She looks like that thing you see at the end of your bed during sleep paralysis."
I always thought Madonna's music was pretty terrible and there was something off-putting in her aggressive pursuit of fame.
I am going through some similar reconsiderations of pop culture. https://hxlibraries.substack.com/p/mind-bending-on-the-virtues-of-mental/comments
There's a deeper thread here I've been scratching at for a while and might end up turning into a post myself eventually: we live in a world that paradoxically cheers "change" while simultaneously denouncing it. Your "truth" must remain your truth forever. There can be no growth, no evolution, no changing your mind after discovering new information. If you start waving a freak flag, you are required to keep waving it now, lest you be denounced as a sellout has-been hypocrite. The world Madonna lives in is one where she now *can't* stop, and can't even tone it down, because for her to do so would be to somehow deny what she has claimed as her truth. So she'll keep destroying her body and putting her tongue on people until she dies on stage.
Yup . . . alas, there are so many celebrities who have turned themselves into monstrosities, with plastic surgeries that suggest more than a few of these stars might be suffering from some sort of body dysmorphia. I saw a recent interview with Dolly Parton and felt sick. I found myself wishing I could get a glimpse of the elderly Parton from a parallel universe; because I am certain she would have been a gorgeous old woman. Stuff like this (as well as all the gender identity stuff, online porn, etc. etc.) has caused some shifts in today's feminist philosophers' thinking . . . this recent interview with Mary Harrington is very interesting, in that she looks back at a point in history where what she refers to as the Feminism of Freedom became dominant in the culture, kicking to the curb the Feminism of Care. It makes a person examine our hard-won rights to birth control and legal abortion in a new light . . . at least take into account the long-term effects on the culture when freedom is valued above all else . . . see https://youtu.be/CQYIOs9tIBE?t=1001 (bookmarked at the 16:41 minute mark). Makes a person think . . . (As I was listening, I was hearing the economist Thomas Sowell's maxim "There are no solutions, only trade-offs.")
I couldn't agree more. But want to point out the "Age Fluid" is the next 'thing' that is being rolled-out. Uggh.
The punk princess aesthetic veered into the sex kitten too fast. Even if you're the kitten with the whip, you're still a kitten. Laurie Anderson called it in 1991: "Laurie Anderson despises Jesse Helms and the right wing too, but in most other ways she’s the Anti-Madonna: “I’d probably be more excited about ‘expressing myself’ if I hadn’t gone to her concert and thought ‘Ann-Margret. I’m watching Ann-Margret’s Vegas revue,’ ” Anderson told her audience Saturday. Ultimately, she finds Madonna’s shtick “more about selling yourself than owning yourself.” https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1991-05-06-ca-889-story.html
Other pop stars have put out their jazz standards/cocktail lounge albums at her age, if not twenty years before. What's sad is that she was once the Queen of re-invention, but she seems to have lost that ability.