I live in a very liberal area, and it's honestly like living in a foreign country. I like the people around me, but I don't quite understand their customs and I'm constantly on edge about saying something innocuous that might offend them.
"Be kind, slow of speech, non confrontational ... "
Generally, I agree. But had that twink at the gym demanded of me "my pronouns" I'd have reacted the same. Or worse. And I don't have a mustache. Sometimes you really do need to call people out with direct rudeness.
Totally agree. As long as it is something that you are comfortable doing, there is nothing wrong with calling someone out and it is indeed needed and right at times too . I’m not good at that because I know I’ll get flustered so I employ a very slow but still honest response. It’s the honesty and being true to ourselves that is mattering more and more than ever. Bottom line is we need to stop going along with things we don’t believe because we are afraid of woke. I think we all need to take a breath and understand that fear cannot be the excuse any longer and be true to ourselves.
yup, they do want us to be afraid but I actually understand that because whether it's in a debate/confrontation or in a game of tennis, it's pretty basic to get the upper hand if your opponent is afraid - it's our fault for actually being afraid.
That's what we all have to work on. It takes two and we are the ones who let it get too far out of weakness (maybe politeness) to begin with. It's been going on for a very long time -always unacceptable to be a conservative, always cool to be a liberal etc. so now there actually are things to be afraid of, job loss etc-real things(!) but we all have to take responsibility for that. We can only deal with ourselves and focus on how we are going to move forward before the consequences get even worse. Thanks for the conversation! It's very snowy where I am today and I am indulging in all things lazy. Nice to connect with others knowing the talented Jenny Holland is our common thread.
Excellent advice, but when I'm confronted by leftists and the crazy shit they say (always taking for granted everyone in the room agrees with them), I feel my face flushing as my temper flares. Remaining "slow of speech" is a talent I wish I had but I'm afraid I lack.
Sometimes we are afraid to speak for an understandable reason (who wants to argue with the boss or with the teacher who controls a desperately desired grade) but sometimes we are just afraid to disagree with any leftist. I can understand this in some cases (who wants to waste time arguing with a terminal idiot) but if we never speak up, even in cases where there is a chance that the person or an onlooker might be persuadable, we are letting them control the public conversation totally and that is not OK.
I too live in a liberal area, but I've been able to cleverly train myself to just avoid saying certain things in mixed company. Long before covid and the woke phenomenon became a thing, I was a lowly file clerk in a government office connected to the city hospital. Government employees tend to be more predisposed to Mainstream (i.e. Leftist) propaganda as well, so when you combine that with being in a liberal city, you get Uber Lefty atmosphere. So anyway my job was roughly spanning 2000 to the months after 9/11, and almost every day at work during breaks when some chatting would arise amongst employees, they would be non-stop Bush bashing and related issues. I would just sit there and bite my tongue, and even nod my head and agree, because my philosophy is what's the point of getting into a wrangle? More recently about 5 years ago, a neighbor, a very pleasant woman otherwise, we were taking a brief walk together adventitiously, and then she spontaneously launched into a political tirade, and it wasn't what I said but it was what I DIDN'T say -- the fact that I didn't echo her sentiments I guess, about how horrible Trump is. She turned to me and said "you mean you're one of those Trump people??!!" Her tone and look would have been the same had she just learned that I raped and murdered my grandmother that morning.
Exactly. Once upon a time, not so very long ago, just being quiet would normally suffice to keep us off leftist radar screens. Now we are in danger from leftist rage or worse if we do not enthusiastically parrot all of the leftist talking points.
Mr. van Zandt--I just want to take this opportunity to say how much I enjoyed your performances in "Citizen Kane", "His Kind of Woman", and the many other pictures you were in.
Woke ideology is elitist at its core. When talking to regular people, I tend to get the truth. When talking to privileged people who had all of the advantages of living in the "best neighborhoods" and going to the "best schools" and who hang around with the "best people", I sometimes want to run and hide under the covers because the stench of the BS is so overwhelming, and they totally believe all of it (obviously I'm not talking about everybody in these categories, but more than a token number for sure). But Jesus Christ said, "For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves." (Luke 22:27)
Really encouraging article, thanks for sharing, Jenny! I can just imagine how that conversation must have felt. It's truly sanity-saving when you get confirmation that most (or, at least, a lot of) people see through the bullshit, and one's own views are not fringe or problematic. I bet those people would love to read what you wrote about them. They probably went home that day feeling the same sense of relief you did. More and more I self-censor these days (and I consider myself pretty liberal!) Some of my views (controlled immigration, or questions about how far we should go in terms of trans ideology) would firmly label me 'right-wing' nowadays. Maybe many others feel the same, but mostly we're too scared to talk about it. But people really do want to voice their concerns and by sparking that conversation, you gave others the chance to do so.
I, too, self-censor (walk on eggshells) to avoid conflict when I'm in leftist company. The strange thing about it, as you noted, was that I once considered myself liberal. I haven't changed, but the boundary moved out from under me. The same views I've always held would now put me in the "Hitler" category in the minds of woke acquaintances.
It truly is bizarre, isn't it!? It kind of makes you question your sanity, at times. I used to love talking about politics and getting into debates. Now it's a no-go area! The landscape has changed. It's like people are no longer judged on their characters, or their actions. We are either good/enlightened people or BAD (Trump/Brexit) people. No middle ground, no nuance. I've never known politics be so divisive and polarised.
This is what I love about NYC. Not just the place itself, though that has it's charms. It's the brash, direct, straightforwardness of so many people. But it's not just NY. The nice thing is that the working class is international, so I've met "New Yorkers" in London and Yorkshire and Seoul.
First, condolences to you and your son, and kudos to you for stepping up.
But most importantly - thank you. Every bit of hopeful experiences like your matters. We all need to stop being afraid to speak. Their only power is to keep us divided and scared. Talking (reasonably) to others of different experiences and perspectives is our only hope.
Brilliant! Nice to affirm the BS isn't being swallowed wholesale and people are sick of it being served or treated as if their intellect is inferior. I love the willingness of New Yorkers to speak frankly and call out BS.
I used to hang out on a beach with a bunch of working class people and they would talk about the "woke revolution" and say things like, "They think they are doing the right thing." Also one of them once said, "Google is the CIA's wet dream." It was at that moment that I realized they were way smarter than my friends who attended the most elite colleges in the country.
You are my people. If I want subbed already, I’d sure sub now!
I’m a member of my local Masonic lodge and it’s hilarious listening to them talking at the bar about wokeness or wokeism or whatever the correct term is. All working blokes, or retired blokes. Farmers, mechanics, tradesmen of all kinds. Not so much anti-work as just fucking bewildered.
This is wonderfully written. Jenny has a knack not only to write well but to translate experience into something entertainingly literary that is also in effect citizen journalism. I'm going to show this to my Leftist friend. My Leftist friend is a fascinating combination: he's devoutly Greek Orthodox -- so much so that he went to live in two different monasteries one in Egypt and one in the Greek Islands as he was casting about for a vocation, ending up now teaching Bible related matters. He's also gay but believes homosexuality is a sin, even though he remains gay. I recall one night when he brought some fine single malt whiskey over many years ago he declared "even if God himself came down and told me John you are not gay, I would tell Him you're wrong!"
And thirdly, most relevant to my comment here is my friend is revolutionary in political sentiment, deeply opposed to the 1% and the globalist elites, and all those kinds of people we in "our Tribe" regularly rail about. However, strangely enough he buys into the whole covid narrative with utter credulousness and naivete, and even gets prickly and threatens to cut off communication if I continue to talk about it. As for the other woke issues, he sees them all as a distraction from the exploitation of the workers by the 1% -- a sentiment I detect in Jenny's essay here, though I don't think she goes so far as my friend who is an unabashed Communist -- Trotskyite, not Stalinist. Which reminds me of a charming encounter I had any decades ago with an activist outside a Safeway supermarket standing all alone with a placard for "the workers to unite". I stopped to chat with him, and said with a grin "is this creeping socialism?" He looked at me with a sincere scowl and said "No! This is galloping communism!!!"
It is possible to both love and hate a city. One might love the energy of a city, its cultural life, its intellectual life, perhaps its proximity to a lovely body of water, but hate its crime, its too often horrible schools more concerned with leftist ideology than with education, its high taxes, the relationship between its smug elites and the people impacted by their policies, etc.
If there was hope, it must lie in the proles
I live in a very liberal area, and it's honestly like living in a foreign country. I like the people around me, but I don't quite understand their customs and I'm constantly on edge about saying something innocuous that might offend them.
Don't be on edge. Be kind, slow of speech, non confrontational but ever honest and truthful.
"Be kind, slow of speech, non confrontational ... "
Generally, I agree. But had that twink at the gym demanded of me "my pronouns" I'd have reacted the same. Or worse. And I don't have a mustache. Sometimes you really do need to call people out with direct rudeness.
Totally agree. As long as it is something that you are comfortable doing, there is nothing wrong with calling someone out and it is indeed needed and right at times too . I’m not good at that because I know I’ll get flustered so I employ a very slow but still honest response. It’s the honesty and being true to ourselves that is mattering more and more than ever. Bottom line is we need to stop going along with things we don’t believe because we are afraid of woke. I think we all need to take a breath and understand that fear cannot be the excuse any longer and be true to ourselves.
We need to be wise and not reckless, but we also need to be brave and not controlled by fear. They want us to be afraid.
yup, they do want us to be afraid but I actually understand that because whether it's in a debate/confrontation or in a game of tennis, it's pretty basic to get the upper hand if your opponent is afraid - it's our fault for actually being afraid.
That's what we all have to work on. It takes two and we are the ones who let it get too far out of weakness (maybe politeness) to begin with. It's been going on for a very long time -always unacceptable to be a conservative, always cool to be a liberal etc. so now there actually are things to be afraid of, job loss etc-real things(!) but we all have to take responsibility for that. We can only deal with ourselves and focus on how we are going to move forward before the consequences get even worse. Thanks for the conversation! It's very snowy where I am today and I am indulging in all things lazy. Nice to connect with others knowing the talented Jenny Holland is our common thread.
The power of intimidation is their primary power. The best thing that could happen for the world is if we all refused to be intimidated.
Excellent advice, but when I'm confronted by leftists and the crazy shit they say (always taking for granted everyone in the room agrees with them), I feel my face flushing as my temper flares. Remaining "slow of speech" is a talent I wish I had but I'm afraid I lack.
I think that’s ok. As long as we do speak the truth because it’s time that we all do.
“Always taking for granted everyone in the room agrees with them”- I know what you mean-so true.
But it’s all our faults for not speaking truthfully at those times out of fear. That’s our fault not theirs.
Exactly. Our fault for being reticent, allowing them to have their way--spoiling them. It's time for that to end.
Sometimes we are afraid to speak for an understandable reason (who wants to argue with the boss or with the teacher who controls a desperately desired grade) but sometimes we are just afraid to disagree with any leftist. I can understand this in some cases (who wants to waste time arguing with a terminal idiot) but if we never speak up, even in cases where there is a chance that the person or an onlooker might be persuadable, we are letting them control the public conversation totally and that is not OK.
I too live in a liberal area, but I've been able to cleverly train myself to just avoid saying certain things in mixed company. Long before covid and the woke phenomenon became a thing, I was a lowly file clerk in a government office connected to the city hospital. Government employees tend to be more predisposed to Mainstream (i.e. Leftist) propaganda as well, so when you combine that with being in a liberal city, you get Uber Lefty atmosphere. So anyway my job was roughly spanning 2000 to the months after 9/11, and almost every day at work during breaks when some chatting would arise amongst employees, they would be non-stop Bush bashing and related issues. I would just sit there and bite my tongue, and even nod my head and agree, because my philosophy is what's the point of getting into a wrangle? More recently about 5 years ago, a neighbor, a very pleasant woman otherwise, we were taking a brief walk together adventitiously, and then she spontaneously launched into a political tirade, and it wasn't what I said but it was what I DIDN'T say -- the fact that I didn't echo her sentiments I guess, about how horrible Trump is. She turned to me and said "you mean you're one of those Trump people??!!" Her tone and look would have been the same had she just learned that I raped and murdered my grandmother that morning.
Exactly. Once upon a time, not so very long ago, just being quiet would normally suffice to keep us off leftist radar screens. Now we are in danger from leftist rage or worse if we do not enthusiastically parrot all of the leftist talking points.
I've got to the stage where I actively seek to offend them as much as possible.
I think that’s brilliant:)
Mr. van Zandt--I just want to take this opportunity to say how much I enjoyed your performances in "Citizen Kane", "His Kind of Woman", and the many other pictures you were in.
Woke ideology is elitist at its core. When talking to regular people, I tend to get the truth. When talking to privileged people who had all of the advantages of living in the "best neighborhoods" and going to the "best schools" and who hang around with the "best people", I sometimes want to run and hide under the covers because the stench of the BS is so overwhelming, and they totally believe all of it (obviously I'm not talking about everybody in these categories, but more than a token number for sure). But Jesus Christ said, "For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves." (Luke 22:27)
very true and well said all around!
Really encouraging article, thanks for sharing, Jenny! I can just imagine how that conversation must have felt. It's truly sanity-saving when you get confirmation that most (or, at least, a lot of) people see through the bullshit, and one's own views are not fringe or problematic. I bet those people would love to read what you wrote about them. They probably went home that day feeling the same sense of relief you did. More and more I self-censor these days (and I consider myself pretty liberal!) Some of my views (controlled immigration, or questions about how far we should go in terms of trans ideology) would firmly label me 'right-wing' nowadays. Maybe many others feel the same, but mostly we're too scared to talk about it. But people really do want to voice their concerns and by sparking that conversation, you gave others the chance to do so.
I, too, self-censor (walk on eggshells) to avoid conflict when I'm in leftist company. The strange thing about it, as you noted, was that I once considered myself liberal. I haven't changed, but the boundary moved out from under me. The same views I've always held would now put me in the "Hitler" category in the minds of woke acquaintances.
It truly is bizarre, isn't it!? It kind of makes you question your sanity, at times. I used to love talking about politics and getting into debates. Now it's a no-go area! The landscape has changed. It's like people are no longer judged on their characters, or their actions. We are either good/enlightened people or BAD (Trump/Brexit) people. No middle ground, no nuance. I've never known politics be so divisive and polarised.
This is what I love about NYC. Not just the place itself, though that has it's charms. It's the brash, direct, straightforwardness of so many people. But it's not just NY. The nice thing is that the working class is international, so I've met "New Yorkers" in London and Yorkshire and Seoul.
First, condolences to you and your son, and kudos to you for stepping up.
But most importantly - thank you. Every bit of hopeful experiences like your matters. We all need to stop being afraid to speak. Their only power is to keep us divided and scared. Talking (reasonably) to others of different experiences and perspectives is our only hope.
As someone who worries about people going too far in any ideological direction, I found this very reassuring and refreshing. Thank you for sharing!
Brilliant! Nice to affirm the BS isn't being swallowed wholesale and people are sick of it being served or treated as if their intellect is inferior. I love the willingness of New Yorkers to speak frankly and call out BS.
I used to hang out on a beach with a bunch of working class people and they would talk about the "woke revolution" and say things like, "They think they are doing the right thing." Also one of them once said, "Google is the CIA's wet dream." It was at that moment that I realized they were way smarter than my friends who attended the most elite colleges in the country.
Try/Me 😂😂😂😂😂. That’s bloody brilliant. What goon that guy was for calling the police.
You are my people. If I want subbed already, I’d sure sub now!
I’m a member of my local Masonic lodge and it’s hilarious listening to them talking at the bar about wokeness or wokeism or whatever the correct term is. All working blokes, or retired blokes. Farmers, mechanics, tradesmen of all kinds. Not so much anti-work as just fucking bewildered.
This is wonderfully written. Jenny has a knack not only to write well but to translate experience into something entertainingly literary that is also in effect citizen journalism. I'm going to show this to my Leftist friend. My Leftist friend is a fascinating combination: he's devoutly Greek Orthodox -- so much so that he went to live in two different monasteries one in Egypt and one in the Greek Islands as he was casting about for a vocation, ending up now teaching Bible related matters. He's also gay but believes homosexuality is a sin, even though he remains gay. I recall one night when he brought some fine single malt whiskey over many years ago he declared "even if God himself came down and told me John you are not gay, I would tell Him you're wrong!"
And thirdly, most relevant to my comment here is my friend is revolutionary in political sentiment, deeply opposed to the 1% and the globalist elites, and all those kinds of people we in "our Tribe" regularly rail about. However, strangely enough he buys into the whole covid narrative with utter credulousness and naivete, and even gets prickly and threatens to cut off communication if I continue to talk about it. As for the other woke issues, he sees them all as a distraction from the exploitation of the workers by the 1% -- a sentiment I detect in Jenny's essay here, though I don't think she goes so far as my friend who is an unabashed Communist -- Trotskyite, not Stalinist. Which reminds me of a charming encounter I had any decades ago with an activist outside a Safeway supermarket standing all alone with a placard for "the workers to unite". I stopped to chat with him, and said with a grin "is this creeping socialism?" He looked at me with a sincere scowl and said "No! This is galloping communism!!!"
Enjoyed this! But, I ❤️ NY. It’s made up of all kinds of people. Just like any other city around the world … and that’s a good thing.
It is possible to both love and hate a city. One might love the energy of a city, its cultural life, its intellectual life, perhaps its proximity to a lovely body of water, but hate its crime, its too often horrible schools more concerned with leftist ideology than with education, its high taxes, the relationship between its smug elites and the people impacted by their policies, etc.
that's my girl. Your dad would be proud of you - again.
"Try/me" . . . ha ha. My laugh of the day!
Sweet.
That was hilarious!